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Re: New New Vandheer

by Daniel Sun Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:10 pm

Armed with Waffles wrote:Huh?
Nebula?
Where?
Where is his picture?

Couldn't find a decent picture online, dam even Nebula has changed.
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:51 pm

Looks a lot like Network...

Scaaaary face :shock:
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Daniel Sun Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:57 pm

other way around, Network looks like Nebula. Nebula came first. In fact, Nebula was going to be the main villan of AwW3, I took him out because I wanted to save him from an even better project.

I'm most proud of this character, of all the ones i've made.
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:02 pm

I think I finally get it what's bothering me about these new Vandheers.
They look evil.
I mean yeah we know he is not the good-guy type, but noone would say he is evil. He simply has his own beliefs and motives. But he is not slaughtering the innocent like Network, and he never showed any signs that he is bad. Mercilles yes, fearsome yes, fierce yes, ambitious yes. power hungry yes, full of himself, yes. But there are other things. The way he treated his old comrades, Eivana, Hawken, that Big Guy. He did forgive them. And I bet you remember:
Brother Hawken, why did you betray me?!
Of course he treated him in a much colder way back in Red Moon. But:
I never imagined Eivana would give birth to such a rude child. I knew your mother. She was a skillful combatant. Such a shame...

These are not the words an evil king would speak.
And look at the origin of his power: Ice. Cold, but not something bad.
And his obsession with revenge is quite normal, I mean he lost his throne and was imprisoned for 13 years. Of course he is angry.

And his appearance showed this too. I mean look at Netwrok: claws horns everything you can tell, he is bad. Look at Gaaz: skull on his head, covered in armor. Look at every evil character, and you will see, there is something about their looks that suggests that they're bad. But not Vandheer Lorde, his horns on his helmet maybe, but nothing else.

I had my friend look at one of the drawings I made. He said: Cool, who is this guy?
Then I had him look at the New new Vandheer and he said: Wow, is that a bad guy or what?
What's with the clawed feet and giant hornes? Is he a devil?

I think I made my point.
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Daniel Sun Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:37 pm

That was a good read. Vandheer is pretty evil though. His nemesis is the very creator of the world, so naturally he hates the world, and wants it dead.
I think I never gave a good reason as to why Vandheer is suppose to be an evil king. I think indeed in Armed with Wings 2, he wasn't very evil.

In Contrast though, I think you'll find Vandheer doing some very questionable things.
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Vandheer Lorde II Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:08 am

Daniel Sun wrote:That was a good read. Vandheer is pretty evil though. His nemesis is the very creator of the world, so naturally he hates the world, and wants it dead.
I think I never gave a good reason as to why Vandheer is suppose to be an evil king. I think indeed in Armed with Wings 2, he wasn't very evil.

In Contrast though, I think you'll find Vandheer doing some very questionable things.


gotta say bro, this saddens me and quite frankly pisses me off...

I would never even start to think Vandheer is evil up until Network came into the picture, a good example of this, is that 'Network' said that Vandheer hated the world, 'Network' used Vandheer to attempt to kill Leo, and Network is always with him throughout the game, i'm sorry, but my Novel's explanation makes more sense, and now that i think about it, it sounds almost more realistic than the reason you gave...

AWW, I agree with you bro, this inspires me to continue my Novel
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Daniel Sun Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:42 pm

Vandheer Lorde II wrote:
Daniel Sun wrote:That was a good read. Vandheer is pretty evil though. His nemesis is the very creator of the world, so naturally he hates the world, and wants it dead.
I think I never gave a good reason as to why Vandheer is suppose to be an evil king. I think indeed in Armed with Wings 2, he wasn't very evil.

In Contrast though, I think you'll find Vandheer doing some very questionable things.


gotta say bro, this saddens me and quite frankly pisses me off...

I would never even start to think Vandheer is evil up until Network came into the picture, a good example of this, is that 'Network' said that Vandheer hated the world, 'Network' used Vandheer to attempt to kill Leo, and Network is always with him throughout the game, i'm sorry, but my Novel's explanation makes more sense, and now that i think about it, it sounds almost more realistic than the reason you gave...

AWW, I agree with you bro, this inspires me to continue my Novel


What is going on!?!? Do you people know what evil even means?
Evil: morally bad or wrong;

Well, sorry for pissing you off. Maybe I didn't make it clear that Vandheer is in fact a villain? He's evil, to put it simply. He is morally wrong, he is bad, he does kills people, He destroys those who rebel, he cuts women, he attacks kids, he sides with monsters and opposes gods.
Go ahead and list his good qualities. Heck i'll event try - He cooperates with those he exiled.

The point that everyone has seemed to miss, is that Vandheer is an evil king. If hes not evil, then what is he? A Hero, peace maker, buddhist monk or something? No - hes evil.

I'm frustrated that people have ignored what the story is in favor of how they want it to be. I love fan fiction that goes it wildly different directions, I love that.
But first accept what the story actually is.

Let me remind everyone, in simple form.
Armed with Wings 1 is a story about a hero on a journey to defeat the great evil king.
I think we can agree that in the context of Armed with Wings 1, Vandheer is the evil King.
"The last rebel has fallen" - ok we can assume there where a bunch of rebels that are all fallen/dead/captured who knows.
"curse you, your wicked ways will meet and end" - ok, this king guy is apparently wicked.
"perhaps..." - ok, this king guy didn't deny being wicked, what an asshole.
Oh shit, he just killed that rebel guy, I guess he killed all the others too.
If that's not evil... whatever.

In the context of Armed with Wings, Vandheer is my main antagonist, Hes the evil king in 1, hes the bitter, proud, asshole warrior in 2. He's the extremely pissed off god hating king without a kingdom, bent of destroying the world, with the devil as his source of power.
Hes all of these things, and he's pure Awesome.

Now, to make EVERYONE HAPPY, Vandheer Lorde in Contrast is a little different. I don't want to give anything way but I will say this...
Hes got the same attitude, and it's really ambiguous as to whether he is evil or not. He'll be doing one thing, which you think Is awesome and cool, then he'll do something totally fucked up.

Now thats sorted, back on topic. The new design.
I don't think i'll ever be able to come up with a design that everyone will be happy with with, even if my art skills increase 100 folds. I think everyone here (including myself) can identify with the old Vandheer. So I can understand that when I show a new design, it's like this weird abomination. It's like if some other women come up to you and says, Hi, it's me, your girlfriend! You'd be like, wtf who are you!? go away!
But in the end, this new girlfriend is probably way hotter, and it's a win for everyone.
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:05 pm

Hey who wouldn't kill the people who rebelled against him?
He has the right. Kills children? Only one he tried is Leo. Why? Because he tried to cut him down and he is the host of the being that imprisoned him. I would be super pissed off too. And he kinda treated Leo fairly at some point. And DESTROY THE WORLD? Well, maybeeee. very maybeee.
I mean he was actually depressed that his empire was in ruins. He wanted to RULE the world.
And finally he wasn't friendly with Network. Network thought he will sympathize with him, but Vandheer just used him as a tool for his revenge. When Leo and Vandheer spoke he seemed like:
Now what?
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Alessa Mason Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:10 pm

As I read you guys' comments, I found Vandheer is a man who stand between good and evil. Vandheer is neither good nor evil. He is neutral. Perhaps?

Speaking of Vandheer and Leo, Vandheer looked down on Leo when they first encountered. As Vandheer knew Leo is Armed With Wings. Well.......the attritude is totally different.
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You stay here forever.
We gonna bury you here.....
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Daniel Sun Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:41 pm

Armed with Waffles wrote:Hey who wouldn't kill the people who rebelled against him?

The question is who would, and the answer is Hitler.
There where more people in the rebel army than the bosses in AwW2. People who rebel against governments are usually citizens.

He has the right.

Just like China had the right to moe down tiananmen square.

Armed with Waffles wrote:Kills children? Only one he tried is Leo.

Says who? I never said that.

Armed with Waffles wrote:And DESTROY THE WORLD?

Yes, Armed with Wings 3, he wants everything to end. He wants blackmist dead completely, that includes the world, as it is made of blackmist.

Armed with Waffles wrote:I mean he was actually depressed that his empire was in ruins. He wanted to RULE the world.

Indeed, in a sense yes. However once he escaped that prison, his mission became 'destroy everything!'.

I mentioned countless times in these 3 games that Vandheer is wicked, everyone wants him out of power, he treats his people like shit ect... Everyone is trying to kill him for a reason. It's just that hes too much of a tank. It takes blackmist to end him.

-- Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:55 pm --

Alessa Mason wrote:As I read you guys' comments, I found Vandheer is a man who stand between good and evil. Vandheer is neither good nor evil. He is neutral. Perhaps?

Speaking of Vandheer and Leo, Vandheer looked down on Leo when they first encountered. As Vandheer knew Leo is Armed With Wings. Well.......the attritude is totally different.


Theres sort of some truth to that. Vandheer defiantly stands on his own two feat, but certainly in AwW3 hes cooperating with Network, on a very smart level as well. They deliberately split up after to lure the good guys away, while network goes to absorb Eivana to become 'complete'.

Vandheer didn't know that Leo was Armed with Wings. Also remember, Leo wasn't Armed with Wings, he was BlackMist. So even if Vandheer knew, he was still in for a big surprise.
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:17 pm

Okay then the big question:

What happened between them back in Red Moon?
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Daniel Sun Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:27 pm

Armed with Waffles wrote:Okay then the big question:

What happened between them back in Red Moon?


ah yes. Theres no real answer to that. Serious. It wasn't a battle however.
I made it look like a battle, to deceive the player. I did that so I could have a cool twist in AwW3, when it is revealed that Network and Vandheer are working together, I wanted to surpriser the players who thought that Vandheer and Network where enemies.

In retrospective, I would've have been very interesting if it was Vandheer vs Leo vs Network. A violent triangle... hmmm... ideas....
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:38 pm

I did suggest that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Daniel Sun Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:52 pm

Armed with Waffles wrote:I did suggest that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

where
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:56 pm

In.... Dunno

-- Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:59 pm --

But here:

Leo beats Network. Network escapes. Netwrok goes to the place where L.W. and V.L are fighting. Network absorbs L.W. because he is weakened. Network tries to absorb Vandheer too because he is desperate. Vandheer wanted to kill L.W. so he is angry. Then Leo comes in.
Leo vs. Vandheer vs. Network.

Maybe Leo tries to convince Vandheer to join forces. Works or not, you decide.

-- Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:04 pm --

This is quite fitting because if Network and Vandheer weren't working together, then they would fight after Red Moon. Because of the Red Moon Vandheer beats Network, who goes into hiding to heal and regenerate, that's why he doesn't make an appearance in AwW 1 and AwW 2.

So that means Network only freed Vandheer to use him. So he would go around and destroy towns, and then absorb him too, when he is no longer useful. Also explains why they split up after he freed Vandheer. And Vandheer's little chat with Leo also suggests that.

-- Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:26 pm --

I always thought that the biggest mistake of AwW 3 was it's ending. It was like: Be gone... V.L. and Network. THE END!

Too quick maybe?

Something more complex or bigger wold have been better. Like what I suggested. Still I'm not saying it's bad or anything... just that it's lacking a "what happened after" part.

And my version could be finished with something like:

Vandheer Lorde : Were you the one who imprisoned me?

Leo: I cannot answer that question. The answer depends on what you choose to believe.

Vandheer sstands there for a moment. Then maybe two different endings: He fights Leo or he walks away, and tries to rebuild his empire.
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Vandheer Lorde II Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:47 am

Dan, i won't quote your long post, but this is a reply to it....

I don't mean this to be a quarrel between friends, it's more of an innocent argument

Daniel, i honestly have no idea how i ever assumed Vandheer was a good guy, i think somewhere in the forums i mentioned how one's characters can come alive and create themselves sometimes, here is a good example of that, although we don't know why we think Vandheer is good

Something has happened/ come along and placed the idea in our minds, maybe something about how he's drawn, maybe his popularity, maybe his past.....

but something has given us that idea.....
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:35 pm

Or maybe we like Vandheer very very much, but we don't like evil characters.

So we ignored his bad habits, and tried to find his good side. With more or less success.
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Sarge Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:33 am

ok idiots..... time to back up my man here.....

Vandheer is an evil king.... period..... always has been.... As a long time friend of Daniel's i can assure you all that he has an obsession with evil characters.... he always rooted for the bad guy in movies.....

Now way back in 2007 when Nebula and Vandheer were first put down on paper they were evil.....

If you payed enough attention to the story as u did to fingering your own asses.... you may realize that......
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:33 am

Since you're such an asshole Sarge, you keep fingering yours every time you touch yourself. Who asked for comments like these, start behaving like a person with manners.
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Alessa Mason Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:50 am

Come on, guys. Sarge does has a point.
IF Vandheer is a kind and wise ruler, there will not be any rebellion army, right?
Then, Lone Warrior does not have to seal him and there won't be any Armed With Wings series.

Somehow, Vandheer does deserve his punishment.
All in all, I hope Vandheer can side with good.
Once again, it's up to Daniel's decision.
We, Forsaken, never give up.
We never forget.
We never die.
This. Is. Our. Land.
You want to stay.
You stay here forever.
We gonna bury you here.....
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:33 pm

All I am saying is that Sarge should wash his mouth.
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Vandheer Lorde II Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:56 pm

Alessa Mason wrote:Come on, guys. Sarge does has a point.
IF Vandheer is a kind and wise ruler, there will not be any rebellion army, right?
Then, Lone Warrior does not have to seal him and there won't be any Armed With Wings series.

Somehow, Vandheer does deserve his punishment.
All in all, I hope Vandheer can side with good.
Once again, it's up to Daniel's decision.


Look at this from a 'human' POV

There will always be in-balance, there will always be War, let's pretend all the Aww characters are Human, Vandheer is a king, just because he doesn't kill babies doesn't make him 'not' evil...

But just because someone opposed his rule, doesn't make him 'not' good

the same can be said for LW, he rebelled because of whatever reasons, in his mind, Vandheer is evil, but perhaps in Vandheer's mind, Lw is evil


Network and Nebula however can be classified as being evil, they are not human, where there is balance and in-balance in Humanity there is something different in 'beings' in general, what that is, i don't know, only Gods/ God does....


Let's leave it at that, if i see Vandheer as good and Dan sees him as Evil both are accurate..

because he's human...
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Alessa Mason Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:58 pm

Armed with Waffles wrote:All I am saying is that Sarge should wash his mouth.


He used to talk like this.
Take it easy.
We, Forsaken, never give up.
We never forget.
We never die.
This. Is. Our. Land.
You want to stay.
You stay here forever.
We gonna bury you here.....
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Armed with Waffles Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:28 pm

Vandheer Lorde II wrote:
Alessa Mason wrote:Come on, guys. Sarge does has a point.
IF Vandheer is a kind and wise ruler, there will not be any rebellion army, right?
Then, Lone Warrior does not have to seal him and there won't be any Armed With Wings series.

Somehow, Vandheer does deserve his punishment.
All in all, I hope Vandheer can side with good.
Once again, it's up to Daniel's decision.


Look at this from a 'human' POV

There will always be in-balance, there will always be War, let's pretend all the Aww characters are Human, Vandheer is a king, just because he doesn't kill babies doesn't make him 'not' evil...

But just because someone opposed his rule, doesn't make him 'not' good

the same can be said for LW, he rebelled because of whatever reasons, in his mind, Vandheer is evil, but perhaps in Vandheer's mind, Lw is evil


Network and Nebula however can be classified as being evil, they are not human, where there is balance and in-balance in Humanity there is something different in 'beings' in general, what that is, i don't know, only Gods/ God does....


Let's leave it at that, if i see Vandheer as good and Dan sees him as Evil both are accurate..

because he's human...


That was sooo true. This comment made my day 78% happier.

Alessa Mason wrote:
Armed with Waffles wrote:All I am saying is that Sarge should wash his mouth.


He used to talk like this.
Take it easy.


Yeah, it's about time he makes a comeback wich will scar me for a lifetime. But wait, used to? I tought he still talks like that.
GENTLEMAN!
Chop of my head with such velocity
that my blood will rocket through my neck,
and propel my lifeless body
ALL THE WAY TO PHOENIX!!!

Woooow... Yo, what's in Phoenix?

Why, it's your mama Steve.
GET THE AXE!!!
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Re: New New Vandheer

by Elgaeoel Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:06 pm

I have a question:

There's Network and Blackmist who are like gods; so who is Nebula?
For of all sad words of tongue or pen/ The saddest are these: "It might have been!"
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